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Poster: William Tell Date: May 6, 2010 2:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

Yes, CREAM...what else?

OK, we all have jams that we can nominate from our Boys that we feel "grab you" and don't let go...even Dire, with his fall 87 and winter 88, can come up with a few.

Now, for those not completely immersed in the early era, the high octane, exuberant energetic jams that it goes without saying are my various breads and butters, STOP reading now! It will only disappoint...for those that need lyrics now and again to bring it back around (I was EXACTLY this type of HEAD from 74-82; I did not go for the jams at the time), move on to another thread.

But, in the interest of getting around to my point, I have mentioned two of these many, many times before, and the others only implied/touched upon recently.

So, here are my nominees for jams that have such high energy levels you simply cannot imagine how they did it without collapsing at the close...and, I am not surprised, after spending a solid two months on them, that yes, CREAM, wins (whatever that means) hands down...

1: Sweet Wine (~13'), 10-15-67 (CREAM)
2: SOYLove (~17'), 4-5-68 (CREAM)
3: OOne (~7'), 12-29-68 (DEAD)
4: YDYLove et al (~the first 8' worth), 1968 (QMS)

Now, the above is not meant as a challenge to vote, or come up with your own listing, more as information for the few of you following my "transfixation" with CREAM of late, and if you have them, I suggest these three shows worthy of significant attn:

10-15-67 (first four trks)
4-5-68 (first trk only; poor recd)
10-4-68 (first four trks; excellent mix/vocals)

BTW, spoke with my brother that attended ALL Bay Area Cream shows, and he insists there was NO other band that came close to generating the energy on stage that these three did...even Jimi, whom he saw many times, incld Monterey, was more of a "experience" in a "WTF are we hearing?" rather than the CREAM extended jam, high energy envelopment...he also mentioned that having been at the Fillmore for one night of the DEAD famed shows, they were entirely different--a lower key, more esoteric "enlightened" higher level sort of experience, not as visceral as CREAM...he thought that the DEAD were defn better for a "trip" and CREAM for losing 5 lbs...for what any of that's worth...

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: May 6, 2010 6:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

inca roads >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS8b6Fb0OSs&;feature=related

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 7, 2010 1:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

I'm surprised to see the 4-5-68 Cream show made it onto your list in spite of the quality!
Their Brandeis University show also has nice long high-energy jams....and 10-15-67 is well worth hearing past the first four tracks! (I'm So Glad is always great.)

Jimi's my man, but I'll admit he's not the one to turn to for a full-band jam, more for what he's doing by himself. His playing is full of ferocious energy, though - often he literally did collapse right after going offstage. His general practice was not to roar through a whole show though, but to balance the loud rock stuff with a few slow blues or quieter numbers.
I tend to like him best in '69 when he'd take off on long solo improvs, for instance the LA show on 4-26-69, or San Diego 5-24-69 (both widely available), or even the Woodstock show...but the LA show is especially inspired, with some tremendous solos.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2010 7:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Few more questions for you...LiA?

Oh yeah--I can barely listen to 4-5, BUT the intensity of the jamming was all I was getting at...

And you are absolutely right about 10-15, but I think SWine has the slightly higher intensity with the "double finish" ending that seems to have only been done with it this one time so energetically.

Last, if you have your collection handy, check out the remaster quality of the vocals on 10-4-68: I'd like to know if you agree they are perhaps the best?

In spite of GB and others saying things were winding down by fall of 68 in all respects, I almost like 10-4 as much as any of the other shows. Mix is excellent too. Playing seems inspired. Esp love JB's slight variations on vocals for some songs (WRm, Spful).

Per usual with me, though, as you know, I can become infatuated with a show and not see past it to other gems for a few wks, so if you have the time, remind me of others you consider tops alongside 10-15...and yep, ISGlad is killer on that...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 7, 2010 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Few more questions for you...LiA?

My tape collection isn't handy at the moment, but you're right that 10-4-68 has good SBD sound, and probably more 'controlled' vocals than earlier shows, too. (But, like another band we know, I don't listen to Cream shows for the vocals!)
Personally, I think the LA Forum show from 10-19-68 is a lot better. (Part of it was used for the Goodbye album - really excellent versions of SoToW and I'm So Glad.) The common bootleg is a combination of the Forum show and the San Diego show from 10-20-68.
I also remember liking the last Royal Albert Hall show (also a good SBD) quite a bit, it seemed pretty enthusiastic, but will need to listen again to be sure.

My problem with that last tour is that most of my favorite live Cream pieces (NSU, Sweet Wine, Steppin' Out, the jammed-out Sunshines, even Ulysses) had been dropped from the setlists. For me, White Room & Politician are not as good substitutes! Evidently Cream wanted to cut down on the 'long jams' except in a couple standards like Spoonful & I'm So Glad.

I've given my Cream recommendations before - I guess if you can handle a decent AUD, try 9-9-67....
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=302068

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Few more questions for you...LiA?

Thanks; yep, defn like AlbHall...most Oct 68 shows are decent, it seems to me, but agree about the shift in song selection.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 6, 2010 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

thanks Tell, i'll check out your Cream selections, have to admit that i haven't delved into those shows as much as you certainly have, but i definitely look forward to the listen(s), as i trust you on the "early" era

i've listened to 10/12/68 more than any other GD show, and the 7-minute post-drums Jam does it for me every time, high-octane, at the last several seconds of Drums when i know the Jam is around the bend, and then wham!, the RPMs shoot skyward and i know, right then, that is the sound that pulls me in; it settles down a bit at the midpoint, but by no means leaves me unsatisfied, the finish and transition to feedback, just perfect

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: May 6, 2010 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

echoes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I9q1wo3ZxE&;feature=related and rush in the end http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kse01ftDAU0 red barchetta is one of my favorite jams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djVGhqvl_8A&;feature=fvw

This post was modified by whirlwind dreamer 65-95 on 2010-05-07 02:01:21

This post was modified by whirlwind dreamer 65-95 on 2010-05-07 02:02:00

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 6, 2010 7:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks one and all for taking it the right way...

After re-reading my post, I realized that it might have sounded like another "CREAM vs DEAD" thread which WAS NOT my intention...

And, rather than taking it that way, you all took it as a prod to suggest some of your own--thanks for that, cap-n, whirl, utop and the rest.

For me, the little listing above is an entirely BIASED, idiosyncratic set of songs based on what I've been spending my time on the past two months, and THAT's it.

By no means an exhaustive survey of anything more than my new found CREAM collection, input from LiA on that, along with a couple of comparisons with DEAD shows and QMS, and then ABB and Jimi...I only used these four others as I was comparing five groups that I have ample experience with, and then just comparing them on my own, very singular sense of "energy output" during a ten minute or so jam sequence.

Arb--yep, I could've picked a number of 68 selections for Jerry and the Boys, but 12-29 (OOne) has that bizarre sequence of unreal sounds, and speed of note production that always impresses...QMS, more in the spirit of a "nonDEAD" SF jam band was thrown in since I've always thought a great deal of that one side of HTrails, and have many of their recordings of extended jams (an old Smokestack Lightening by them was in consideration! Forgot I had it!). ABB, in my experience, typically didn't produce the extreme energy output/unit time (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with that--just a different approach, that I love nontheless).

Could've done LedZep of course, but don't have as much of their material, nor the Who...

Hope it's useful to the handful of you with CREAM interests, and to whatever degree other suggestions move you to explore others.

Thanks again for understanding...

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: May 7, 2010 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks one and all for taking it the right way...

QMS defiantly worth more attention . I have always wondered if "whole shows" exist ,of what they taped for Happy Trails . I have heard the a few of the scattered live things ( the "Concert Vault"), but I wish there could be a few archival releases of some of their shows . Seems to me the Dead played with them, on those "Happy Trails" shows, and were not allowed to tape . A fantasy would be a release of a complete "Quick and the Dead show ".

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 7, 2010 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks one and all for taking it the right way...

Unfortunately, from those same FM brcasts in the 70s (various "revisit the 60s" shows I heard in HS/college in the Bay Area), I have a number of QMS jams on various tunes, BUT since there is no QMS archive that I follow, like here, I have no idea when/where they are from (sure I could dig in and research it, but hey--two bands are enough for me on this sort of thing!).

Like you, would happily buy more if they released it...

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Poster: high flow Date: May 6, 2010 7:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks one and all for taking it the right way...

I liked the part about your brother. His first-hand(to you, second-hand to us) account and his comparison is interesting.

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 6, 2010 7:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Thanks one and all for taking it the right way...

Yeah, most of what I've mentioned about my two older brothers (one passed) came from recollections of them when I was a kid in the 60s (they were both in HS/college in the Bay Area, right at the "right" time, 62-72)...the older one and I have now begun talking a great deal (I send him shows, he sends me feedback and stories; good trade!) about it all, esp as I have veered off on this CREAM obsession.

I think I mentioned that I actually "heard" my first DEAD show in GGPk from the parent's car as they dropped my two brothers off, and then parked for a while to "listen/watch" the stream of humanity moving past...all he could tell me was it was probably spring or summer of 67 and it was a free show with them, and no one else, he thought.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: May 6, 2010 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

.

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: May 6, 2010 4:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

There are a few bands that come to mind.
I have always been a great fan of Steve Howe and Yes, and in particular, though the sound is notoriously shitty, there is a moment during the 14+ minute version of Perpetual Change on YESSONGS that is spellbindingly euphoric, including a dynamite Bill Bruford on drums (0nly 1 of 2 sadly here as he quit and soon became a member of King Crimson, a band I could post all day about. His replacement Alan White played a much more conventional rock-based and pop style, really altering the sound of the group from then on).
This 1972 jam builds and spreads out and sounds very similar to the Post-Alligator jam from 4.29.71 in its free spirit audacity and an almost GDTRFB theme by both bands. Howe is in fine form and rips during his solo run! Chris Squire on bass is a real genius, on the same level as Tony Levin in his thinking. I am always struck by the playing of this band. Their strenghts are in the Lead Guitar and The Bass position (Howe and Squire) just like the Dead. Also, both had great off-beat drumming. Odd, yet I could put on a great Scarlet>Fire and then follow it up with an equally great live version of Siberian Khatru! Saw them in the round in 78' at The Garden and the Bass Solo I witnessed that night by Squire is still likely the best i'll ever hear...

Here's my entree. A great little 14 minute Perpetual Change on Yessongs from 1972. Wish Bear had done their recording...

This post was modified by Capt. Cook on 2010-05-06 23:30:18

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Poster: William Tell Date: May 6, 2010 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

I was exposed to a great deal of YES stuff in the early days from a friend that was a huge fan, and I always thought very highly of them...Agree completely about CSq...somehow, though, I never amassed a large collection, so don't have much to work thru comparison wise, and know with them, it's more apples and oranges anyway.

Just had to chime in to say I appreciate your taste; have fond memories of listening to all of his stuff (he was always bringing it to counter my DEAD which otherwise would've dominated the get-togethers, if you follow. It didn't take long for me to enjoy a fair amt of it, but some of it (perhaps later group lineups?) didn't grab me (this was in 74-76 though he had everything they had produced to that pt).

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Poster: utopian Date: May 6, 2010 4:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

www.panicstream.net/streams/eric_clapton/1970_08_23/
jam 1
jam 2
jam 3
jam 4
jam 5
jam 6

2 if these made it to the crossroads box set

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 6, 2010 5:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

are those the jams with duane? (derek & the dominoes?) If so, some of the best stuff around

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Poster: utopian Date: May 6, 2010 5:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

Yes, I believe Duane alman sits in on a few of these.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: May 7, 2010 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jams that HOLD your attn...partially DEAD at best...and...?

Jam II and Jam IV are both on my iPod - separated by 5/8/77's Scarlet Fire - for my half marathons.

Jam II puts me on a 9:40 pace at the 6 mile pointand gets me to about 7.3 miles where my half wall typically hits (more out of boredom than fatigue) Scarlet-Fire gets me through the wall at about a 10:20 - 10:40 pace so I bust through the wall and come out right around the 10 mile point. Jam IV gets me back on a finishing pace and depending on nothing in particular, I'll try to finish on some 240 bpm bluegrass cluster pluck (Salt Creek, Back Up And Push, Roanoke, Blackberry Blossom, Big Mon, Whiskey Before Breakfast, etc.) where there are a whole lotta good ole boys playing a whole lotta notes a whole lotta fast.

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